logs archiveChat DB / Freenode / #programming / 2015 / November / 5 / 2
blehblah
it's not an acquired state, it's a passion and a purpose
RustyShackleford
writing proofs is basically the same thinking as programming. Break things into smaller, reusable parts
nso95_
blehblah: definitely
blehblah
just like a language, you can get rusty with it if you don't persistently practice and improve it
nso95_
Proofs can be fun
blehblah
nso95_: I definitely was better at math in college. It sucks that a lot of that knowledge gets buried in time.
RustyShackleford
I graduated in may and almost forgot it all
blehblah
RustyShackleford: that's why mathematicians have a natural inclination to pick up programming and vice versa
RustyShackleford
it's so sad. But it's one of those things that comes back once you refresh your memory
blehblah
oh just wait 15 years down the line :D i'm 3 years after graduating and struggling to remember even calculus 2
yeah for sure!
you can probably re-learn it 3x faster
more importantly you may have the knowledge to cherry-pick what specific subset of math you need to re-learn
Anduin
Just made my first game in C++
nso95_
Congrats
blehblah
Anduin: congrats!
Anduin
Anyone want to see it? It's kind of... uhh... lewd
blehblah
(Action) throws confetti
Anduin
It's just a simple text battle I would say
blehblah
I've got a SFW req :(
Anduin
But thanks for the support guys
Can't wait to show it to my roommates... when they wake up. I think they're going to like it.
I used a for loop for the monsters HP and switch case for different attacks
It works, though still needs some improvement.
blehblah
Anduin: host it on github
Anduin
Lol. I don't know if I want anyone to see this
I would have to make a pseudo account.
blehblah
(Action) shrugs
now i'm imagining what kind of "battle" it is lol
Anduin
I'd rather put it on a paste bin. It's pretty funny.
blehblah
lots of tentacles i bet :D
Anduin
No tentacles. That might be the sequel though.
jeaye
Anduin: Why C++?
Anduin
When I took a programming class, it just happened to be the language we were working with
SO ive been learning it
blehblah
what's wrong with c++? should he do it in buildbox? :p
Anduin
Ahh. I just realized, you need to have a c++ compiler to run it...
jeaye
blehblah: It's a poor choice for a first language.
Anduin
I think it's a good learning languages
blehblah
people here in the office been hyping up buildbox and i'm like I don't get what all the ruckus is about, there's been something like gamefactory forever
Anduin
SInce it's pretty low level
nso95_
I think the important thing for Anduin right now is just learning to program
blehblah
Anduin: no, you need a c++ compiler to build the executable.
nso95_
blehblah: buildbox?
Anduin
I have the build, Im trying to find the .exe lol
jeaye
You don't know many languages, and you don't know it well, Anduin. Learning to program while also learning the intricacies of C++ is extra burden.
blehblah
nso95_: some graphical programming language for games or stuff. Another crap for producing flappy birds.
jeaye: I think C is a good start to programming. After learning it, one can proceed to C++
jeaye
blehblah: That's a fu*king terrible idea.
blehblah
why?
nso95_
blehblah: ah..people really hype that shut up, despite them just being programming languages
kadoban
blehblah: That's the worst advice possible.
nitrix
C is the worst language to begin with.
blehblah
nso95_: INEFFICIENT as general-purpose programming languages.
nitrix
I'd recommend a language that favorise trial-and-error as a mechanism of learning.
jeaye
blehblah: Good C is horrible C++, good C++ is impossible in C. Learning to program doesn't mean learning all of the intricacies of memory management, pointers, bit twiddling, etc.
nitrix
C doesn't allow for trial and errors.
jeaye
blehblah: Just because most of us C++ folks learned C first doesn't mean others should.
blehblah
why would C be bad? learning it makes you learn of some deeper programming concepts that you can't as easily expose in Java or something
Anduin
Yeah. The class Im taking next semester is taught in Java, so that's that.
kadoban
blehblah: C won't tell you when you're wrong, it'll just & do something, maybe. There's no good abstractions available, so it takes forever for a beginner to write anything useful, etc.
jeaye
blehblah: I encourage you to watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnWhqhNdYyk
nitrix
blehblah: There is no concept in C that doesn't exist in other languages.
Anduin
I just assumed that the frustration of C++ is universal lol.
pyon
blehblah: Making mistakes and learning from them is important, but the problem with languages like C and C++ is that a beginner can't easily tell where exactly the mistake is to begin with.
blehblah
jeaye: I would argue that someone who knows how to program must be aware of exactly the things you listed!
pyon
blehblah: You can't fix a mistake you can't locate.
jeaye
blehblah: He wants to make a game. He shouldn't have to worry about the various unsafe printf string formats, or pointer arithmetic, or the return value or strcmp and whether or not a certain string copy will overflow.
nitrix
blehblah: To give you an insight, 99% of the people that claim to know C I have met, didn't.
kadoban
blehblah: An expert, yes. You don't teach a beginner how to swim by throwing them in the shark tank and turning on the wave pool.
jeaye
blehblah: He should work intuitively with values and just focus on learning the logical processes of programming.
blehblah
jeaye: that's a good point
jeaye
blehblah: That excellent video expands upon my point very well, I think.
pyon
blehblah: I think something like Racket or ML might be more suitable. Nothing beats ML at locating mistakes. Racket isn't that good in this regard, but it's better than all other dynamic languages, and it lets you run partially wrong code - while still telling you where mistakes are, thanks to contracts.
blehblah
nitrix: that's a quite elitist standpoint to "knowing a computer language". By that definition, it seems 99% do not know their mother tongue.
kadoban: I honestly don't think C is that hard, or that it's that easy to mess up
kadoban
blehblah: That's because you have stockholm syndrom.
wafflejock
eh I learned C early on in my learning to program, I thought it was good, when I moved over to Java I wasn't very happy about all the hand wavy garbage collector business
blehblah
jeaye: I'll watch it when I'm off-hours, thanks for the link! I've saved it
pyon: haven't heard of that. You may very well be right
pyon
wafflejock: The problem isn't GC in itself. You can have a GC-less language that still tells you where your mistakes are - Rust.
Anduin
Woah, I've ignited quite the discussion
nitrix
blehblah: How well do you think you know C ?
jeaye
blehblah: It's easy to leak in C. It's easy to double free. It's easy to buffer overflow. It's easy to have dangling pointers, null pointers, and other various pointer nonsense.
blehblah: When learning to program, *these should not be a concern*.
blehblah
nitrix: well enough to make a program do stuff related to my problem domain, be able to optimize and debug it, and not crash all the time
jeaye
Furthermore, when programming, *these should not be a concern.*
pyon
wafflejock: The problem with C is that (0) it doesn't give you GC [mmm, okay], (1) it doesn't give you *ANYTHING* to make up for the lack of GC [less okay].
wafflejock
pyon: back in my day we didn't have rust or at least I didn't know about it C was the thing to know
jeaye
wafflejock: Well, this is 2015.
pyon
wafflejock: Ah, sure. Things were different back in the day. But now it's 2015.
blehblah
nitrix: well enough that online documentation and support forums can carry me through the tricky parts, too
nitrix
blehblah: I'd argue that online documentation and support forums are abysmal about C.
Especially around storage durations, scope, linkage and pointers.
jeaye
Even more so with C++, since it's changed so much recently.
Anduin
How do I put an .exe on github?
jeaye
Anduin: You don't.
Anduin
Darn.
jeaye
Anduin: You put the source on Github.
Anduin
Anywhere good to host a small .exe?
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